While laser technology can scan the outside, they do not scan the inside. 2nd Swing offers the largest selection of Iwant to know why you didnt do the same for irons? Almost every golfer has an opinion about the topic when askedso we felt it would make for a great labs article. For all 3 testers, the TaylorMade Burner produced measurably higher clubhead speeds than the clone. If your shooting 92 at your home course with a set of Pings you can shoot a 92 with clones. Then to follow it up with the only diff is that the Major OEMs have more money to B.S. Notify me of followup comments via e-mail. Tom Wishon, he himself a club designer who has his stuff made in the Far East, backs up MGSs facts. . Your recently viewed items and featured recommendations. Your link has been automatically embedded. Im a 73 year old guy with a bag full of unmatched clubs (some clones, some brand names, all with the same grip) that worked his handicap down to 6 at the age of 72. Some features of a driver, its head size, for instance, cannot be protected, but others can. I would like to share input on iron comparison. Wishons new single length iron design concept EQ1-NX offers same length and high COR low loft iron characteristics while adding many new performance enhancing features to mark a definite step forward in game improvement iron design. We have every type of club you can imagine. For the best experience on our site, be sure to turn on Javascript in your browser. A few reputable clone companies online get their product made at the same foundry that a few large name brand companies get their gear made. Im sorry but some of your facts are wrong. A lot of people eventually got in trouble for it too. Within minutes a graphics designer at Yarn-Way had downloaded the logo from the TaylorMade shaft onto a computer screen and was making minor design and color alterations to it. Inside was a TaylorMade wedge. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); I have been hitting a clone set of irons since 2008. I have a set of irons by Affinity. Reshafting These services usually take 5 to 7 days, as we have to order I actually built some Wishon/Sterlings (single length collaboration between Tom Wishon/Jacob Bowden) at multiple lengths (i.e. TaylorMade gets credit for the original design. Learn more about Roger. Then if it is assembled, how well is it assembled. WebGigaGolf Custom Golf Clubs FREE STAND BAG with $500 custom Learn More a GIGAGOLF EXPERT for club fitting assistance or to place an order by phone (M-F) 8 to 5 est Learn More Play better golf with custom clubs fit Im talking pure clones not Bang, Geek, Krank, etc. I picked up a set of King Snake MRs in the local ads for 25. Material used is cheaper. Of course, golf clubs are about more than performance. . I had them custom fitted senior flex shafts. . On 5/20/2020 at 10:38 PM, aerospace_ray said: On 5/24/2020 at 9:08 AM, aerospace_ray said: On 5/24/2020 at 10:48 AM, Guest Delete said: ltby?" Clones fall within legal guidelines and do not have the same name, markings or overall design. I am now ordering today,shafts, grips and epoxy plus a three wood rescue club from them. I know Wishon wasnt. Has anyone ever stolen an idea or proposal you have written? This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google, (your email address will not be published), Costco Kirkland Performance + Golf Ball (Version 3), Costco Kirkland Signature Wedges Version 2, http://www.diamondtour.com/golf-bags.html, http://www.pinemeadowgolf.com/golf-clubs/accessories/. I have been hitting fitted Giga Golf TRX slot irons. You can post now and register later. Adjustments can take 24 hours and sometimes they are done on the spot! Ill use Infiniti as an example. IMO, no they do not. While there may have been a foundry that produced both OEM and Clone, it isnt a general rule, as OEMs have strict contracts with the foundries they use, that prevents the practice. Because the ball position and club length are the same, you can use the same swing for every single-length iron, improving consistency and repeatability. (Major as in U.S. Open, Masters, British Open P.G.A. Didn't find much else on here, so that's why I started the new thread to explore more. T. he loft gapping is slightly larger than traditional irons; this is to maintain a proper distance gap between clubs. Got it, thanks! Also illegal is a club that is very close to a direct copy and is termed either confusingly similar (if it infringes on company trademarks) or substantially similar (if it infringes on design patents). I have bought several other Hireko clubs and have been totally satisfied. On average the apex of each shot was justslightlyunder 2.5 yards higher with the Burner, which along with higher ball and club head speeds explains the difference in carry yardage between the clubs. The uninformed, the newbie, the consumer who is jealous of the success of OEMs and their need to earn profits. Nearly all Club heads come from China. LOL. I think that you are just talking B.S. As a group, ball speeds averaged a full 3.5 MPH faster with the name brand Burner. Irons: 3-PW Mizuno MP37, Recoil Proto 125 F4 (reshaft in progress, slowly); 1i &3-PW Golden Ram TW276, NV105 S; 2-PW Golden Ram TW282, RIP Tour 115 R Maybe the new Golfworks KE4 can play like the originals but for cost these keep me in the 80 range on the scorecard. So you are saying that geek golf that you run is just a spin off as well. document.getElementById( "ak_js_2" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. There is current debate at the FTC, and US Patent Office level, on how closely a product can resemble another. While the dual-crown technology is visible in both, on the TaylorMade Burner its much more subtle and refined. I think the clones would hold up very well but yeah Id love to see the hard numbers and see the results from various spots on the irons for consistency. If you cant afford the latest and greatest, do some research and find something that will work for you at a price you can afford. No Research and Design Costs. While not a tremendous amount in raw form, from a percentage standpoint it works out to an increase of 15.7%, which when youre trying to keep a ball in the short grass, probably is a significant amount, and helps to explain the difference in accuracy between the clubs. Caveat, Ihave not built any of their(Hireko)newer models but I have with GolfWorks. Not surprisingly, the Burner also produced the greater shot height for 2 of our 3 testers. I'm happy with it. Golfworks (Malby) and Wishon Golf (Tom Wishon) are two of the best. The brand doesnt seem to make much difference in quality to me. Below is a lengthy paper that I previously wrote on the subject. No one knows what they are. I saw they also have a dual length set for people that just don't want to play long 6i length short irons. The long irons are 5i length and the mid It is just that simple! They have a 6 iron length. I suppose it may have been clever to put that in my first post. Custom fitting can have a dramatic effect on your game. Does seem disheartening that GolfSmith and GolfWorks would be lumped into second tier. Thats one of the most credible sources on golf equipment and the up-and-comer in the golf media (with THREE other sources) that shoots down your claim. ive built mell clubs for 12 yrs.i made a mellow yellow driver,9.5 degrees, with a proforce stiff shaft.took it to course and was smashing it.a scratch golfer ask to hit it.he drove on an average,15 yards pass his ping driver.but would he let me make him one or buy mine?no way.ive made lots of clone clubs,but never made another like the bang mellow yellow.aas amatter of fact,i just received a new 10.5 degree mellow yellow head. . who would do that ? Regarding Acer, most likely but don't know for sure. I wonder why? Its almost laughable to make those type of statements! You are right, though, that golf is an expensive game. My point is: high handicappers dont hit the ball well enough, or consistently enough, to notice a difference in performance. Just ask yourself, have you ever had someone take credit for your hard work? Can clone golf clubs perform as well as the higher priced name brand golf clubs?. They just cannot afford it! with hosel weight bore allows assembly to any single length between 35.5 and 37.5 while still being able to achieve a reasonable range of swingweight/MOI (depending on shaft weight and grip weight), Looking for more consistency from your iron game? 5,6,7@ one length and 8-gw @ a shorter length) a year ago. The assertion made that many Clones are made in the same factories as OEM clubs is unsubstantiated and simply incorrect. QUALITY!! Hireko stuff is reasonable, and priced quite well. We took a quick reading on the DigiFlex and found only a 2 CPM difference infrequencybetween the two clubs. Counterfeits like we said are NOT the same as clones and the counterfeit equipment is often the cheapest and lowest quality equipment. One of the guys on WRX built a set of XV Pros a while back, gave them a review. On the Heated its more noticeable, and perhaps even distracting. Lasers are used to copy the exterior of high selling clubs; again, there is no internal accuracy, nor the same construction, material or quality. My DTG S2 Pros were both on spec. Jeff Makowski Component Golf Clubs: Such as, INFINITI, SMT, NAKASHIMA, and KZG, are original designs and are legitimate and ARE NOT part of any reference. As for the rest of the components that go into the club, some of the companies give you a choice of components. Counterfeit Clubs and Clone Clubs, the operators who sell and produce, contribute to higher prices of the legitimate brands. So, I could care less about design copy as I am the quality that goes into a club. Tom Wishon was at Dynacraft before moving to Golfsmith. There have been recent factories busted in China. I have the Dynacraft CNC forged wedge that's currently for sale on Hireko's site. I started playing golf 4 years ago, immediately began keeping.g an hcap and I was around a 20. I understand the average iron costs less than $10 to make thats head shaft and grip. Ive also had the WH XG #7 (RIP) and irons from Tour Edge. Display as a link instead, Eliminating the human factor suggests we can hit a golf ball off the tee with precise consistency if we use the same club. Quality is really poor. Copyright 2023 1757 Golf Club All Rights Reserved. Bottom line though is that no matter what fitting is the biggest goal, whether or not the clubs are name brand or knock-offs. Actually liked the longer length distance gapping in those but could not dial in shorter length club distancegapping. Tom Wishon has a lot of golf club patents from when he was the designer for Golfsmith and since he started his own company years ago. nice way to put down your own company. They swing quite heavy compared to most but I got used to them. As with our test of the Shotmaker, shafts were spined and FLOd. Funny how the name brand club manufacturers try to bury information that might hurt their status and sales. I played a set of extremely cheap looking rental clubs. Note that Pinhawk is a Of course, if you want re-sell value probably by OEM. So, of all the clubs Ive ever owned, one club was .7g past tolerance. Shafts can make a huge difference, and fitting an expensive aftermarket shaft in a $50 clone driver seems well, counter-intuitive. The court ordered the defendants to pay $20,000 in damages to Callaway and to turn over their inventory of more than 11,500 infringing components for Callaway to destroy. Cookies help us deliver our services. I can only hit a drive about 180 anymore and the Thriver gets me there. How is the overall health of golf these days? Regripping We offer all of the grips offered by Golf Pride, Lamkin, Winn, and Super Stroke. You can do lab tests forever, but if a club does not feel right for your swing, it doesnt matter how it did in tests. You will receive personalized attention from the initial interview through product delivery. I have hit them myself and compared a set of them with my name brand and really with the same shaft,,,, they were every bit as good and a bit better in some respects cause I made them to fit and every component was checked. I was looking at the 85 and 75g steel shafts also. By being all the same length, lie, balance and weight as a 7-iron, there is no need to change your posture, stance or ball position so you only have one thought process for every swing with your irons and wedges. This is a topic Im always interested in. If golfers were in the world of buying by results club sales would shrink to almost zero. Great review! Reshafing- We can reshaft most golf clubs with just about all major brands in graphite and steel shafts. My guess is that you have predetermined that a clone has to be an inferior product? The only problems with clones is that there arent clone golf bags! I have contacted Hireko customer service in the past and they were very nice/knowledgeable. Clothing manufacturers have been battling this issue for many years. I have a mixed bag of Name brands and clubs from Giga Golf. GW: Dynacraft Dual Milled CNC 52*, Steelfiber 125 S; Scratch 8620 DS 53*, Steelfiber 125 S and its fitted perfectly to you,(from your pros stats) everyone looks at my clubs, and get really impressed by the beauty,..and they play very good. Too many variables. Im tired of spending more on bags than I do on clubs! We do not. $249.99. I have seen some things that would shock you about the quality of some of the BIG name brand models. Anyway shot an 83 at a course I never played on with clubs I never swung before. I have a gigagolf driver and a hireko driver and a Powerbilt airforce one driver. Championship). For the best experience on our site, be sure to turn on Javascript in your browser. It's rather nice, spins decently, good feel. Essentially, you were saying that all clone companies operate in the same way. Unless its Oscar Peterson. Ping, TaylorMade, Callaway, Nike, etc. Questions? Think Maltby has brand recognition as they have been around much longer and Ralph Maltby club making/repair/fitting schools are well established. SWIFT) Determination of trademark infringement is tough to prove and costly. Head is just going along for the ride. Turn around time on regripping is usually 48 hours. A test such as yours would better be done on mechanical equipment such as the ball manucturers use. Sent from my SM-N960U using MyGolfSpy mobile app. I worked in manufacturing for over 50 years and watched all kinds of products being manufactured from high quality aircraft bolts to electronic equipment to toys. For me, I purchase OEM then if anything goes wrong I have a legitimate beef with the supplier. Pasted as rich text. It is less and less common. Its not the arrows, its the Indian guys. If a component seller such as Diamond Tour wants to be fully legitimate, they need to invest fully in true component companies such as SMT, and abandon the practice of selling Clone clubs. I believe it was good for MGS to write about this since it eduates people about the other choices they have. If however, you place a premium on accuracy, though not as conclusive, there is some suggestion that the clone could be the more accurate of the two heads. It has become rampant and that is why ACUSHNET (TITLEIST/COBRAS), ADAMS, CALLAWAY, CLEVELAND, PING, and TAYLORMADE are part of and formed the U.S. From what I understand, Bang Golf doesnt make clones nor knock-offs. Of course the currently have their hands and funds fully committed going after Counterfeit Clubs. all play a role not only what we think of a club design, but also how we perceive performance. And the 3rd tier generally have the smallest capacity and make some of the lower end quality equipment and clones you run across. As many manufacturers of goods will attest, conducting site visits and monitoring factories in China, is a difficult and costly task. Some golfers place an absolute premium on distance. Now Im down to 6.3, been playing clone irons the whole time and usually Orkut drivers but not always and often times I play an 8 year old Taylor made r510 tp. E.M. Lets not forget the Titleist Speeder shaft which is a Graffalloy Pro Custom, ($20) shaft or Calloways sourcing their shafts from several manufactures with only the barest of specs. Her irons are Acer HT, likes them also. Square headed drivers made from wood in the 1800s. Do you not find all of those cases wrong, frustrating, and near impossible to prove? Clubhead speed, and launch angle are both significant factors in determining ideal spin. Are there clones that are made with poor qualityYES. Oh and I like their hybrid and fairway wood models. In fact, I cracked the club face on one of them within 6 outings. Whats the harm in buying a Knock-Off/Clone? Reminds me of the guy from the PING fitting van yes, all our products are Made in the USA the you flip the club and it had a big sticker saying designed in the USA, head manufactured in China, assembled in who knows where. Driver: TM Original One 11.5* set to 11*, Aldila NV75 X, 43.5" -or- SpeedZone, HZRDUS Black 75 6.5, 43.5" Because MyGolfSpy Labs doesnt put a score on things, rather than have our testers fill out our surveys, we simply had a discussion about the subjective aspects of our two drivers. No need to point that out and recommend starting a new thread for those who insist on making that there lifes mission. Pin hawks are much more cost effective in my opinion for testing so I will most likely go that route. It just isnt very admirable. Our team of expert fitters fits more than 500 delighted customers a year!Our staff of skilled club fitters is passionate about providing the highest level of customer service. Clone/Knock-Off Golf Clubs: Have cosmetic resemblance to true Manufacturer Clubs, but internally they are not the same. SWIFT) Im glad the rental only cost me $15.00 any more and I would have been upset at myself renting them. If however, you place a premium on accuracy, though not as conclusive, there is some suggestion that the clone could be the more accurate of the two heads. 2nd Swing offers the largest selection of used golf clubs both online and in our stores, including every brand and model imaginable. But even this line is blurring with some of the reputable clone and component companies out there in recent years. I found that both sets hit almost exactly the same distance with the same loft, atleast I cannot notice any difference. The right shaft for the player is far more important IMO. The 2nd tier often makes some of the mid-size golf companies that a lot of you play but they also make some of the top components and clones for companies like. In fact each of our testers produced average speeds 2-3 MPH faster with the Burner. It would be more honorable for a person to show up with RAMs purchased at Target than to use Knock-Offs/Clones. There is so many aspects to playing this game, and so many different things that can effect how we play. There are better clone models of this driver, although we decided to go with a mid-tier model. Kent Graphtec dealt primarily in knockoff clubs, products with names such as King Snake and Big Bursar, simulations of the popular clubs King Cobra and Big Bertha. Web$189.80 (6 used & new offers) MAZEL Single Length Golf Club Irons Set for Men & Women (4,5,6,7,8,9,P,A,S) or Individual Iron 7,Left/Right Handed,37.5 Inch 489 $29900 FREE Are shafts or heads manufactured to a large (+-) tolerance with the (-) tolerance being the norm or are the parts manufactured to close tolerances? WebHirekos stable of recognized clubmaking brands include Acer and Juggernaut in clubheads, to SK Fiber golf shafts, to Karma golf grips. In the case of the Burner Tour vs. I must take exception to the consideration being given Clones. There are a practically infinite number of clones for every significant new driver that hits the market each year. Well today youre going to find out once and for all. Yes, I know this is a 2011 article. The 2nd tier often makes some of the mid-size golf companies that a lot of you play but they also make some of the top components for companies like Golfsmith and Hireko and clones for companies like Diamondtour. in my opinion would have been more accurate. Im a 9 handicap and own a set of clone irons I bought from Diamond Tour last year, Taylormade Speedblade knock offs. This allows the golfer to use the same swing, on the same plane, with the same feel, for each iron in the set. IMO, no they do not. Strong lofts with forgiving mishits and incredible feel. But not the component club heads. Although new legislation is going to clarify this further. Its in the hole! Carl Spackler. Oneday 8 years ago I saw an add from Hireko for their THRIVER. I know Maltby designs their clubs but does Hireko design theirs? After viewing product detail pages, look here to find an easy way to navigate back to pages you are interested in. How many of them are the clubs the least of their problems? My perception of what I see around me is that golfers fall into two categories. Ive been on both ends of the spectrum: I bought the Sasquatch and 5000 when they were brand new, thinking Id get some sort of golfing nirvana with each new release. I cant say enough good things about the quality of the clubs I have purchased from Giga. That you are giving money to an operation that also conducts Illegal activities? Great story I have a dynacraft hollow body driving iron that I got from hireko for $17 (for the head). A different animal than what the test was. I made my biggest improvements this year when I broke down and took a couple lessons from Derek Radley of Mobilegolflesson.com. Obviously this test doesnt begin to cover all of the combinations. Spin While many manufacturers are promoting less spin off the driver, the truth of the matter is that the distance equation is far more complex than less spin = more yards. All three are quality products, at least as far as I can tell. If you line 50 men up of varying heights with hands at their sides you will find almost all, regardless of even 56 or 66, their hands will all be at about the same height. The one thing Ive discovered is that there is a big difference between quality with regards to clone irons and woods. Hireko has existed since 1981 per something I've seen online. the consumer. Quality components are available from private brands that may be higher quality than major branded equipment. But the same thing can be said about some of the name brand models as well. They were almost new and i could tell they had only been used a handful of times. Of course, its completely fine for you to voice your opinion, but you should not be critizing others product decisions. I submit that much is misguided and misinformed. How well are the clone/knockoffs made? I have to say I am more impressed now to the point of considering buying some components to actually test them. Specifically TM P770. Personally, I think his sentence would be more accurate. Purchasing used golf clubs is a great way to ensure you have quality equipment in your golf bag at the right price. Clone equipment is within the patent and trademark limits and for the reputable companies selling clones is 100% legal. In my opinion this is the single greatest point of differentiation between the two clubs. Golfsmith were, er, well Golfsmith and we'll leave it at that. Roger Hatcher, PGA Lead Fitter, InstructorTitleist Master FitterRogers passion and knowledge of proper fitting are legendary in the DC Metro area. They are extremely popular for a reason. Taylormade bought out Adams. For example, a comparison between the ACER XF Leggera and TM Burner 2.0. So to sum it up, the component industry made a lot of the modern technology way before the major OEMs had any of this gear which to me says that the component industry has a lot more Firsts than any of the OEMs put together. From tee to green and everything in-between, Hireko offers a wide array of golf clubs for players of all ages and abilities. Golfsmith has become really copy cattish lately, but mainly because they are throwing in the towel on the clubmaking side of it. SWIFT) I have a loft lie machine in the basement, so no big deal. I met him in person at an Lpga event in Atlantic city (he is the caddie/boyfriend of Sara Brown. There just simply is not the time or money right now to go after them. The clubs were built with FST 90 regular tip trimmed shafts for a 6 iron. I recently played golf without my set while visiting my brother. Length adjustments usually take 48 hours to complete. Id also love to see more articles on component manufacturers. Dont lump everyone into a category. To make this as apples to apples as a comparison as we possibly could, we pulled the stock shaft on the Burner, and outfitted both drivers with the new Mugen Black shaft (60 gram, stiff flex) from Harrison Golf. You invest your time and should invest equally in your equipment. No Reps. No Service. Shop products from small business brands sold in Amazons store. All Levels of Golfers Beginners to Advanced. Note I'm 68 and using A flex but with the right shaft for your game they will play to any flex. For those who feel Clones perform just as well as OEM I wont argue that point, you have convinced yourself.
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